The case for fully automated sailing rigs

And if we do that, sales drop to zero.

And we return to square one: this industry tends towards the absurd because it is dominated by powerful and implacable forces:

(1) imitate the look of racing sailboats

(2) professionals whose training is suitable for large vessels and which are lost below 20 Tons. And it is completely impossible to convince them that a sailboat is not a miniature ship with sails

(3) capricious and ignorant public

(4) a lot of inertia, prejudices, superstitions, group pressure and aesthetic tyrannies

 

If one has Functionality, Comfort, Safety as gods ...

It turns out this or this

 

or this

Pete Goss. Sailor, adventurer, international speaker. What next? Find out here https://petegoss.com/pages/latest-adventure/the-oddity/63

 

or this

 

I am a modern (1930-) sloop enthusiast

The sloop is a magnificent 1-3 ton, 6-9 meter sailboat

And even at this correct size I think that the headsail should carry its boom

 

Suppose someone comes down from UK heading to the Canary Islands and the Caribbean... why do they need a modern sloop?

A modern sloop suits me well to go uphill against the wind ...

Cabo Finisterre - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabo_Finisterre

and go back uphill after going down south

Cape St. Vincent - Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_St._Vincent

Seriously: to go around the world through the trade winds, I think you could consider the idea of a Viking freighter with a horizontal carbon fiber tube with a sail well suited for downwind

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Maybe the Viking merchant ship is not a good solution, I don't know, the point is to reflect on how insufferable and even dangerous the large and giant sloops are.

 

Red dog

RED DOG YACHTS https://reddogyachts.com/sv-rosie-g

ROSIE G: A Scow-Bow Junk Named After a Dead Dog - Wave Train https://wavetrain.net/2019/07/01/rosie-g-a-scow-bow-junk-named-after-a-dead-dog/

Its inevitable in this context

 

These claims are untrue.

Many sailboats do NOT "imitate the look of racing sailboats". Earlier you stated that
"imitating highly competitive sailboats has been the iron law since 1850" which is simply untrue. This boat

is NOT an imitation of the "highly competitive racing boat" of its time, like this;


and surely even you can see that. To be honest, it just makes you look silly to stick to your statement when comparison between those boats show how wrong it is.

The same applies today. The highest-profile racing sailboats of today are like these;







while popular production boats look like this;





Anyone who says that the extremely popular Bavaria and Lagoon (which are not boats I like personally) and such boats are "imitations" of high profile racing boats needs to get their eyes checked or to learn about boat design.

The high-profile boats have no accomodation or minimal accomodation and no or minimal deckhouses, while the popular boats have lots of furniture and large deckhouses. The racers have things like wingmasts, wingsails, foils and canting keels whereas the cruisers do not.

The claim that modern sailboats all imitate racing boats is simply untrue, just as the claim that this has been the case since 1850 is simply untrue. Making such claims, when the reality is so obvious, just makes one look silly and dishonest.

It is simply incorrect to that yacht designers have "training suitable for large vessels" and are not aware that "a sailboat is not a miniature ship". Many professionals, such as designers, sail small boats and have not trained as NAs. They therefore do NOT have training for large vessel design. Instead, the top ones often have outstanding records in small sailboats and use that small-craft design to drive their understanding of sailboats.

Looking at some top designers of the last few decades we see, for example;

a) Bruce Farr was a Moth and Skiff champion, who used the lesson from his Skiff designs in his yacht designs. No one who knows his career can honestly say that he does not know that a sailboat is not a miniature ship.

b) Russell Bowler was a Skiff and dinghy champion, used to taking lessons from small boats and applying them to yachts. No reasonable person could say that a top small-boat sailor like him does not know that a sailboat is not a miniature ship.

c) Jean Pierre Kelbert was a two-time European champion windsurfer and second in the 1988 Olympic windsurfing trials for France. He started JPK to build windsurfers and is an excellent offshore racer. It is untrue to claim that Jean-Pierre is not aware of the difference between sailboats and large vessels.

d) Sam Manard was one of the top Mini sailors, designs foiling Minis, and also designs Beneteaus. It is impossible to honestly state that a top Mini sailor did not understand that a foiling Mini and other sailboat is not a large vessel.

It is a LIE to claim that some of us who disagree with you suffer from inertia and superstition - in many cases the disagreement is because we have sailed and owned boats with particular characteristics and worked in the industry and talked about the designs with those who created them. It is a LIE to claim that actual real-world experience is "superstition", just as it is a LIE to claim that some of us, who have sailed an enormous variety of craft and often owned an enormous variety of craft, have inertia. We speak from actual experience - something that from the lack of evidence you provide, you seem to lack.

Please stop lying, if you can.

 

Yes, like this

Downwind it works well enough, but "Killer booms" are critical in windward performance.
Or for larger sails like spinnaker, genoa or screecher.

And outriggers bring their own set of complex control sheets and gear.

 

Please stop infecting threads with your particular brand of vindictiveness ( needs to get their eyes checked or to learn about boat design. it just makes you look silly) , and personal assassination.

Cant you just express your disagreements, ( which does have valid points ) , without so much nastiness. ?

It grows very tiresome, and you must feature very highly in the "Ignored" category of commentators.

 

R, I would love to have less vindictiveness on this forum - I only do it response to those who use abuse as their stock in trade, because of the frustration their abuse and dishonesty creates.

The words I use pale in comparison with the vast amounts of abuse that people like Carlos throw around so dishonestly. Look at the post I responded to - it insults the competence and basic intelligence of vast numbers of professionals; it refers to an "ignorant public" with "prejudices, superstitions". That abuse is aimed at people I and others know and like. Should we stand by and let insults flow merely because they are aimed at others? Do you sit back and let others abuse your friends? Does such unsubstantiated abuse help us discuss boat design?

It is also frustrating when someone makes claims as ridiculous as Carlos' allegation that a canoe yawl is an "imitation" of a Rater and that a Lagoon 380 is an "imitation" of a racing tri or foiling cat, and yet that same person does not have the honesty to even discuss the point and responds only with abuse. This is not honest and reasonable discussion, which is surely what this forum is about.

What does one do when, for example, one brings up personal experience as someone who has owned a radical wedge-style boat, who has spoken to many designers about their issues, and yet when one raises such issues which is what the forum is about one gets only insults rather than reasoned discussion?

I apologise to most people who are annoyed by the results of my frustration - but if someone throws around wholesale insults, refuses to engage in the reasonable discussion this forum is for, and continues with personal insults then it's understandable if some of us get annoyed.

If, like me, you would like this to be a polite place for reasoned discussion then don't take aim at me - take it up with people like Carlos who throw the dishonest allegations and insults that spur some of us to respond.

As for me being high on the ignored list - if you want to go into that territory then look at how many more "likes" I get from readers here per post than you do. Maybe you are not in a position to tell me that I'm unpopular around here.

 

""Killer booms" are critical in windward performance"

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WTF

If that were true, the headsail, jib or genoa, would have a boom.

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QED

In this industry, even knowing how to distinguish the bow from the stern is a rarity.

 

That is why we use the spinnaker pole on the headsail when going down wind.

 

That kind of insult is unwarranted. The pointy end is forward and the square end is back.

 

The Mainsail Boom of a Sloop is for sailing Downwind, not necessary Upwind